Listener Comments for fossiles.wav

Read the instructions for the test
200 = xing, bitrate = 128 kbit/s
234 = wma8, bitrate = 127 kbit/s
321 = lame, bitrate = 125 kbit/s
413 = ogg,  bitrate = 127 kbit/s
299 = aac,  bitrate = 132 kbit/s
854 = mpc,  bitrate = 136 kbit/s
Results to date:
xing   wma8   lame   ogg    aac    mpc
3.6    3.3    2.8    3.4    3.9    3.0
5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0
5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0
4.2    4.5    3.8    4.9    3.1    4.1
5.0    5.0    3.5    2.5    5.0    4.0
4.0    4.5    4.9    4.0    5.0    4.2
3.5    4.9    4.9    4.9    3.9    2.7
5.0    5.0    4.0    3.9    5.0    5.0
2.5    3.5    5.0    3.0    3.8    3.9
4.7    5.0    4.7    4.7    5.0    4.5
5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0
5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0
5.0    4.0    4.0    5.0    5.0    3.0
5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0
5.0    4.0    4.0    3.0    4.0    5.0
5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0
2.5    5.0    3.5    4.0    4.5    4.0
4.0    5.0    4.9    4.0    4.0    4.9
3.0    5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0
3.0    4.0    4.5    5.0    4.0    4.5
5.0    4.0    5.0    4.0    5.0    5.0
3.9    4.4    4.8    3.7    4.0    5.0
5.0    5.0    5.0    4.0    4.5    5.0
3.5    3.5    4.5    5.0    3.0    4.8
5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0    5.0
Resampling analysis, fossiles.wav:
25 listeners
Each listener's resampled values are chosen from his own pool of ratings
  (blocked analysis).
Blocked model used to calculate unadjusted p-values.
100,000 bootstrap trials are performed to adjust p-values using free step-down.

                            Means: 
wma8     lame     aac      mpc      ogg      xing
  4.58     4.55     4.51     4.50     4.36     4.30

                            Unadjusted p-values
         lame     aac      mpc      ogg      xing
wma8     0.846    0.646    0.628    0.177    0.083
lame       -      0.790    0.771    0.247    0.123
aac        -        -      0.981    0.371    0.201
mpc        -        -        -      0.384    0.210
ogg        -        -        -        -      0.699

                             Adjusted p-values
         lame     aac      mpc      ogg      xing
wma8     0.991    0.987    0.987    0.738    0.507
lame       -      0.991    0.991    0.805    0.626
aac        -        -      0.991    0.917    0.770
mpc        -        -        -      0.915    0.771
ogg        -        -        -        -      0.991

Comparisons in italicized red below are true as a group with 95% confidence.


Listener 1 (Marcel Bierling)
Listener 2 (xercist)
Listener 3 (Mark Hetherington)
Listener 4 (Andreas Karlsson)
Listener 5 (Garf)
Listener 6
Listener 7
Listener 8 Greg Wooledge)
Listener 9 (neoman)
Listener 10 (Shaun)
Listener 11
Listener 12 (Wikan)
Listener 13
Listener 14 (Eric Ding)
Listener 15
Listener 16 (Alex Johns)
Listener 17 (ff123)
Listener 18 (2BDecided)
Listener 19
Listener 20 (Hans Heijden)
Listener 21 (C. H. C.)
Listener 22 (mikpos)
Listener 23 (Yannick)
Listener 24 (xiphmont)
Listener 25 (Sunthelazar)

Listener 1 (Marcel Bierling):
f200 3.6
e234 3.3
b321 2.8
d413 3.4
c299 3.9
a854 3.0

Listener 2 (xercist):
I tried my hardest not to give 5's, but you can see I gave many. I suppose
my ears arn't what they used to be *sigh*.
200 5.0
234 5.0
321 5.0
413 5.0
299 5.0
854 5.0

Listener 3 (Mark Hetherington):
I downloaded all the files in FLAC format, found a FLAC decompresser, and had a good listen to the tracks (and linABX'd some of them). All it did was show me how bad my hearing must be!!!!! I can usually tell a 128k mp3 when I hear one, and so I have been using Lame at 192k (couldn't get VBR to work too well- the encoder was crashing?? Probably my effort at compilation!!). Now I've switched to OGG Vorbis at 160k (nominal), and I'm much happier with the sound in general, it sounds a lot more lifelike than the mp3s.

I'm listening to all this on either my handbuilt Playmaster Amplifier, and handbuilt speakers. I'm quite proud of them having built them myself, and at least to me they sound very comparable to the best I've heard in hi-fi stores. They aren't the best of the best, but the are in the hi-fidelity range. Sound source is of course the computer, through a SB Live. If your interested and it helps your survey specs of the amp are: 185W RMS, 0.005% THD at 100W RMS into 8 ohms, and 0.008% at 180W RMS. IMD 0.005% at 180W RMS (50hz/7Khz 4:1 ratio). All of that is into 8 ohms. >100dB signal to noise (unweighted) with respect to 100W.

I'm listening further, but all it's doing is making me more dissapointed in my ears..... (I'm pretty sure all my listening equipment is up to scratch).

So I'm basically going to have to give a 5.0 for all of them. All my linabx tests have given fairly inconclusive results, not many results were too close to 12, let alone above it.

I hope that helps in some way.

Listener 4 (Andreas Karlsson):
The diffrences was much easier to find in the fossiles_*.* :)
200.flac - 4.2 - No distortions but the treble/bas balance is odd. More .
234.flac - 4.5 - Very good. Just some glitch in the high frequesncies, .
321.flac - 3.8 - Slight phaseshifting in the high frequencies and a less .
413.flac - 4.9 - Almost perfect. Sounds just a bit "cold".
299.flac - 3.1 - Missing a lotīs of frequencies. I must compensate to enjoy imagine sound).
854.flac - 4.1 - Sound noisy in the mid frequencies. Much like encoded a 44.4kHz sample.

Listener 5 (Garf):
200: 5.0
234: 5.0
321: 3.5 8/10 as [854] but additional smearing
413: 2.5 6/6 same as [321] but worse
299: 5.0
854: 4.0 14/16 flutter in the lively parts

Listener 6:
4.0 fossiles_c200.wav sounds a little flatter
4.5 fossiles_a234.wav valve sounds not as noticeable
4.9 fossiles_f321.wav
4.0 fossiles_b413.wav High-pitched squeaking noticeable
5.0 fossiles_e299.wav I couldn't tell the difference
4.2 fossiles_d854.wav tinny

Listener 7:
fossiles_200:
-------------
noticeable reduction in clarity of high frequency content, mid-range
hissing. Rating: 3.5

fossiles_234:
-------------
slightly flattens sound; otherwise almost perfect. Rating: 4.9

fossiles_321:
-------------
very, very slight loss of high frequency clarity. Rating: 4.9

fossiles_413:
-------------
slightly flattens sound; otherwise almost perfect. Rating: 4.9

fossiles_299:
-------------
flattens tone, emphasizes high range, doesn't sound *right*. Rating: 3.9

fossiles_854:
-------------
less spacious, noticeable smearing of high frequencies, audible high
frequency buzz, mid-range hissing. Rating: 2.7

Listener 8 (Greg Wooledge):
fossiles_d200.wav: rating = 5.0
fossiles_a234.wav: rating = 5.0
fossiles_b321.wav: rating = 4.0 (ABX = 12/16)
Comment: during the final seconds, when the instruments all play together, there's some distortion/noise/echo in the background. It's subtle, and hard to hear. Also, the violinist's "string noise" (at about 7.0s) seems to be a bit "harsher" in the encoded song, although I can't consistently judge from that alone.
fossiles_e413.wav: rating = 3.9 (ABX = 13/16)
Comment: same as for 321, just *slightly* easier to detect.
fossiles_f299.wav: rating = 5.0
fossiles_c854.wav: rating = 5.0

Listener 9 (neoman):
Fossiles - There is a sort of high pitched tone/harmonic over some of the
notes in the origional. Several of the samples magnified this sound.

200 2.5 Much the same as 234, except the ring is even worse.
234 3.5 Strange ring/high pitched distortion at the end of some of the notes. It sounds like it might be exagerating a noise that exists in the origional.
321 5.0 As far as I can tell, they are similar.
413 3.0 Instruments in the background seem to "merge" into one towards the end of the clip.
299 3.8 Same ring, but the rest of the clip sounds fuller than many of the others.
854 3.9 Looses some fullness. It sounds accurate, but like it's though a cheap(er) pair of headphones.

Listener 10 (Shaun):
I think I have a terrible ear - all the files sounded great to me :-)
fossiles_b200.pac 4.7
fossiles_a234.pac 5
fossiles_d321.pac 4.7
fossiles_f413.pac 4.7
fossiles_c299.pac 5
fossiles_e854.pac 4.5

Listener 11:
fossiles_200.pac: 5.0
fossiles_234.pac: 5.0
fossiles_321.pac: 5.0
fossiles_413.pac: 5.0
fossiles_299.pac: 5.0
fossiles_854.pac: 5.0

Listener 12:
fossiles_200.pac: 5.0
fossiles_234.pac: 5.0
fossiles_321.pac: 5.0
fossiles_413.pac: 5.0
fossiles_299.pac: 5.0
fossiles_854.pac: 5.0

Listener 13:
I had a hard time distinguishing - they all sounded really good. <70% accurate on ~12 trials resulted in a '5' rating. Tested using ABX, headphones, on W2K PC w/SB Live Sound Card:
Fossiles_200 5
Fossiles_234 4 brittle High End, or too much treble.
Fossiles_321 4 I just let my ears direct me to which sounded like orig and had good results ('guessing'). 321 sounded good, just not quite the same.
Fossiles_413 5
Fossiles_299 5
Fossiles_854 3 Sorry, I don't remember the problem here :( I didn't write it down. But this was the only one that I had little difficulty discriminating. My recollection was that the sound was a 'grainy'.

Listener 14 (Eric Ding):
I suppose it just means I have wooden ears, but I couldn't hear perceptible differences in any of the samples. It's only a useful data point, I suppose, in showing that for some folks, it doesn't matter which format is used, even at 128 kbps.
fossiles_200: 5.0
fossiles_234: 5.0
fossiles_321: 5.0
fossiles_413: 5.0
fossiles_299: 5.0
fossiles_854: 5.0

Listener 15:
200 - 5 unable to tell the difference
234 - 4 Lacks a lot of presence
321 - 4 Missing v high frequencies / slightly muffled
413 - 3 sounds muffled and high frequencies are muted / slightly electronic sounding
299 - 4 lacks presence (I think some of the low frequencies are missing)
854 - 5 Pretty good

Listener 16 (Alex Johns):
First, the caveats: I'm listening on my work machine - I'm not sure what kind of sound card it has. I have a cheapo lineout cable from the sound card out to split inputs on an old boombox, sitting on my desk. From there, I have some Kenwood KPM410 headphones plugged into the headphone jack of the boombox. I set the equalizer on the boombox to neutral and I turned it off in Winamp. So I don't have great equipment, but it's a test of some kind.

So... Well, I can't tell the difference. They all sound the same. I've listened to all 3 snippets in all 7 ways and they all sound clear and perfectly listenable. I do have some ability to discern a bad RIP - I 've been busy ripping at home and most seem to come out fine, but there's a Roger Miller's Greatest Hits that for some reason came out bad recently. My wife said it sounded like it was coming from a well.

So, either there's no qualitative difference between the compression methods, or I have really bad ears, or (most likely) if you listen on bad enough equipment, it really doesn't matter. I would run this test at home where I have much better equipment, but I still only have modem access there and I really can't see spending the time to download all these files.
(Sorry.)

I have no idea what you want to do with this. I almost didn't send it to you since it seems worthless, but I thought that perhaps it might help for statistical purposes. Hope it helps in some fashion.

Listener 17 (ff123):
200: 2.5 16/16 ABX: heavy transient smearing, moderate fluttering
234: 5.0
321: 3.5 16/16 ABX: moderate transient smearing
413: 4.0 16/16 ABX: slight transient smearing, also slight fluttering
299: 4.5 15/16 ABX: very slight wavering in beginning notes, but not a lot of transient smearing
854: 4.0 16/16 ABX: noisier than the original, as in not as clear, however not a lot of transient smearing

Listener 18 (2BDecided):
I've taken the time this afternoon to sit down and listen carefully to
Fossiles. Usual equipment: CardD+, external DAC, Sony MD acting as
amplifier and headphones. There is a fair amount of background noise
around here today, so if there's any very quiet background sound
problems, I'll have missed them. However, I could hear problems in all
but one excerpt.

randomized:
a=854
b=234
c=321
d=200
e=299
f=413

Best = b = 5.0 - can't hear any problems

Next best = a = 4.9. ABX = 6/8 (twice) so that's just maybe I can hear a
difference. I had to turn the volume up (all the rest were auditioned at
a sensible level, where the loudest part wasn't too loud), and
concentrate on the first xylophone note. You can just hear that it has
slightly more of the brightness/rasping from the strings behind it than
in the original. This is so hard to hear that it's on the verge of
imagining it - the ABX seems to confirm that I'm [i]just[/i] hearing
something.

c = 4.9. ABX 8/8. Slight smearing of the xylophone notes, but it's not
too bad. It wouldn't annoy me.

d, e, and f I've given 4.0. I can hear different problems with them, but
can't decide which I find more annoying...

d is just the smearing of the xylophone notes. Wouldn't really want to
listen to this one.

e is weird - again there's some smearing. More significantly: right at
the start, and also somewhere mid-way through the extract, it sounds as
though it's being starved of bits - the high frequencies (the harmonics)
are cut out.

f is nasty. I think it's the slight underwater bubbly kind of sound
behind the whole track, but it makes it sound slightly out of tune to my
ears.

I've tried, but I can't decide which of d, e, and f I dislike more -
they're so different, but the annoyance is the same magnitude with each.

Listener 19:
fossiles_200: 3.0 16/16 pre-echo in xylophone, generally unclean sound
fossiles_234: 5.0
fossiles_321: 5.0
fossiles_413: 5.0
fossiles_299: 5.0
fossiles_854: 5.0

Listener 20 (Hans Heijden):
200 3.0 fluttery highs
234 4.0 quiet parts have less highs (3rd second)
321 4.5 rawness
413 5.0
299 4.0 overall less highs
854 4.5 rawness

Listener 21 (C. H. C.):
200 5.0
234 4.0 slight distortion L channel percussion
321 5.0
413 4.0 slight coloration
299 5.0
854 5.0

Listener 22 (mikpos):
200 3.9
234 4.4
321 4.8
413 3.7
299 4.0
854 5.0

Listener 23 (Yannick):
200 5.0
234 5.0
321 5.0
413 4.0 (xylophone doesn't sound as crisp)
299 4.5 (just doesn't sound as good)
854 5.0

I was using XMMS, this is all IMO of course, I'm not a music expert.

If you require any additionnal info don't hesitate to ask.

ps: Just a thought for the next set of blind tests, maybe you should try with more intricate music that stimulates more of the spectrum so it would expose the flaws more, but then again at 128 they probably all would have some deterioration, just a matter of finding out who does the better job.

Listener 24 (xiphmont):
fossiles_200: ABX score 16/16, rating: 3.5

The original has some harsh, strong, peaky brightness in the high treble that this codec swirls. The effect is instantly noticable (I blew through the 16 comparison ABX test in about 30 seconds), but not in the 'unlistenable' category.

fossiles_234: ABX score 16/16 rating: 3.5

A weird lowpass keeps creeping down over the treble, sapping brightness out... then disappearing again. It's fairly subtle, but it's there and easy to hear.

fossiles_321: ABX score 15/16 rating: 4.5

There's no single noticable artifact in this sample, but there is a general perception of slight loss of refinement. In the first few comparisons, I had to go back to the original A/B to check, but after the first four or so (in which I chose wrong once) I was able to zip through the end. This sample was ever so slightly brighter than the original.

fossiles_413: ABX score 11/16 rating: 5.0

fossiles_299: ABX score 16/16 rating: 3.0

more flanging than any of the other codecs. Background noise swirls. This one was easy.

fossiles_854: ABX score 14/15 rating: 4.8

This is probably as close as I could come to being able to somehow hear some difference with much straining as opposed to being baffled. Some of the noisiness in the strings is ever so slightly different from the original. Although I'm not in an ideal listening environment, I'm being otherwise careful, and this one was barely perceptibly different.

Listener 25 (Sunthelazar)
200 5.0
234 5.0
321 5.0
413 5.0
299 5.0
854 5.0

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